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tv   MSNBC News Live  MSNBC  September 10, 2011 11:00am-12:00pm EDT

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[ male announcer ] the most legroom per dollar of any car in america. from $10,990. the all-new nissan versa sedan. innovation upsized. innovation for all. the 9/11 anniversary terror threat, why are two of the alleged plotters thought to be from the u.s.? the latest in the search for them next on msnbc saturday and also ahead, remembering the day that changed the nation and the world. america marks the tenth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. we'll see how those horrific events altered america forever. good morning, everyone, welcome to msnbc saturday, i'm alex whit. it's just past 11:00 on the east, 8:00 a.m. out west. let's get to what's happening out there. new details on three unidentified men believed to be part of a possible al qaeda plot
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timed with the anniversary of 9/11. security extra high in washington wug and here in new york city. on word that these men may try to launch an attack tomorrow, using car and truck bombs. earlier today i spoke with congressman peter king, the chairman of the homeland security committee who told me about the intelligence behind the potential plot. >> the most important thing is getting such a specific plot plan. i've been doing this for a number of years. i've never seen a plot that was laid out so specifically. usually you get bits and pieces and have to worry about connecting the dots. that's not the case here. >> i'm joined by wnbc tv reporter jonathan deems. >> they' >> new york, washington, the timing, september 11th anniversary timing and the method, car bombs.
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there's no specificity of who. they have the first name of one. maybe they're traveling on american documents, two of them could be american citizens who snuck into pakistan. all of that is hazy and unclear and where they are now, whether they're in this country is unclear. that's what they're running around trying to find out at this hour. since there are a lot of gaps in the intelligence and questions. while the informant has been credible overseas in the past, they don't know where he got this information from and whether it will hold up. that's what all of this is about. here in new york we're seeing the ramp up. we're going to have a ramp up anyway given the 9/11 anniversary and we know al qaeda wants to hit this city and has tried more then a dozen times in the last decade. with this added threat they've ramped it up even more. we went back to seeing checkpoints. >> i'm curious, what is the frustration level as you talk with all of your sources, which are numerous here, are they frustrated or are they looking
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at this like we're looking for a needle in the hay stack here? >> frustration, for sure. one official said to me just a short time ago, yes, it's exactly that. they're trying to put together pieces. in cases like this it's like you have a jigsaw puzle with a lot more pieces than you have to complete the picture. there are pieces that are missing and you're trying to piece this all together under an enormous time pressure. >> basically what they're looking for is, is that just like what we saw, faisal shahzad, is that the description they've been given. >> that's the type of plot al qaeda has tried and tried again. we saw the zazi subway plot. the zazi plot, plant a bomb, park a car, set off a car bomb in times square. that is the type of threat that they know is real, that they know exists and as one official just explained to me a short
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time ago, look, even if we don't have guys, names and faces, we know al qaeda wants to try to strike in this city and we know this anniversary weekend is something osama bin laden had aspired to want to see another attack on. >> yes. >> they need to step things up as a precaution. are there three guys here plotting to blow something up? they don't know. they're trying to figure it out. >> jonathan dienst. thanks for that. with a good morning to you -- >> good morning. >> the credibility of this sith source, are we going to look back at this and say we went all out for nothing? >> we might. that's part of the problem here. around this anniversary, every single credible threat is being taken seriously. in this case, it's not credible because of the amount of detail about the plot, it's credible because of the source where the information is coming from. that being said, we --
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>> and the date. >> and the date. we've had false alarms before. it should be said moreover that even if something were to happen, there's no saying it has anything to do with this particular intelligence lead. there are home grown extremists out there. unfortunately this anniversary is like ringing the dinner bell for these people. they want to make headlines. i think we have to be careful about jumping to conclusions. >> do you think there's a connection about this specific and credible threat and all of the information we found an osama bin laden back in may. >> it does seem to be there's a connection there. you also have to wonder, this whole plot apparently came to be or at least the information developed within days of us picking up an individual in pakistan, known as moratoni, a senior al qaeda operative, cast by osama bin laden to carry out attacks on u.s. strategic targets. maybe it's a coincidence but it's one heck of a coincidence. the answer is if you look at the
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circumstances, there's reasons to understand why the federal government would take this so seriously, why they would pursue this but at the same time i think it's important to understand that the level of information we have right now, there's no need to panic. there's no need to freak out. there's no need for us to really have a heart attack. it's just an issue of keeping our eyes open. and the new york police department right now, i think are doing an effective job of making sure that unattended vehicles are being checked, are making sure that large vehicles are being checked. that's as much as we can do. >> they're making their presence known. that's for sure. we're going live to ground zero and peter alexander. peter for this morning, the commemoration ceremony taking place tomorrow. what about security? we've just been talking about that. what are you seeing in terms of security there today. >> we've seen a lot of security throughout this entire city. the police commissioner made it clear that there will be thousands of additional police officers in and around this area
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and throughout the city. tomorrow there are shifts going from eight hours to 12 hours, basically swelling the force by one-third at any given time. let me give you a live picture at athe site of the former worl trade towers. that is where the dignitaries, the president of the united states, george w. bush, rudy giuliani, present mayor, michael bloomberg will be arriving. here's the platform that's being constructed. the sayre moan niz begin at 8:40 tomorrow, a total of six moments of silence to commemorate each time a plane hit and each moment that a tower fell. as we bring the camera over to the right right now, as we pass by the flag, you can see the structures that are now in place here. and also the two fountains, alex, that have gone up in place
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of where the towers stood. there is one of them with 30-foot waterfalls, each of these a square shape around the outside, a border of bronze with the names of all of the victims engraved there. they will be revealed to the families for the first time tomorrow. and then officially this opens to the public on monday. as we open up wider, you get a better view of the trees here, more than 400 trees in total that exists. one tree that preexisted here, that is the survivor tree, a tree that was saved from the rubble when the towers fell. now almost exactly ten years ago. behind us also today, we've been showing you who is one world trade center, this is what was formerly known as freedom tower. you can see where the flag is at the base and the beautiful sky scraper that's going up right now. they are expected to unfurl another flag, a large flag, any time now that will be there. the workers were here for a moment of silence yesterday so they can be a part of the
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commemoration ceremonies as well. so many will not be present for tomorrow's event. alex? >> peter alexander wigt there at ground zero. thank you very much for that comprehensive report, peter. former president george w. bush took part in a dedication at the pentagon this morning. it happened just a short time ago. former defense secretary donald rumsfeld and his wife were also present. president bush will be attending the flight 93 memorial dedication later on today near shanksville, pennsylvania, and he'll also be joining in tomorrow's service at ground zero here in new york. the official dedication ceremony for the national memorial to the victims of united flight 93 take place this afternoon. 40 passengers and crew members died there. we are live in shanksville. mara, tell us what's planned there, just starting in a couple of hours? >> you can see the final preparations are under way behind me here for this event.
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the crowds are just starting to stream in. the event starts at 12:30 today. we'll be hearing from former presidents bill clinton and george w. bush and then there will be the presentation of memorial itself. that will be unveiled by vice president joe biden. the memorial is a white marble wall that's inscribed with the names of those 33 passengers and 7 crew members who fought back on september 11th. flight 93 was the only hijacked plane on 9/11 that did not reach its target. and that's because those on board decided to fight back, forcing the hijackers to crash earlier in this rural -- this field in rural pennsylvania. so all of those people who fought back are being remembered as heroes here today. now, that wall is the first completed portion of the memorial but the memorial itself is not finished by any means. there are many parts that still have to be done here. in fact, organizers say they still need to raise money. they are about $10 million short for fund the rest of this project. they're hopeful they'll get the
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money they need to finish this up. their target for completing all of it is 2014. tomorrow there will be another event taking place today, a memorial event. president obama will be here for that event. we have two days here planned to commemorate and remember those who lost their lives here on september 11th. alex? >> all right. thanks so much. we will bring you the dedication ceremony of the flight 93 national memorial near shanksville, pennsylvania. chris matthews will be anchoring the coverage of that event, to begin at the top of next hour. we will bring you the ceremonies at ground zero tomorrow beginning at 8:00 eastern on msnbc. ahead, picture this, a photo from the gop debate. what's this all about? stay with us and find out here on msnbc saturday. it's salonpas. this is the relief i've been looking for. salonpas has 2 powerful pain fighting ingredients that work for up to 12 hours.
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at a quarter past the hour, there you are taking a look. that is liberty state park in jersey city. of course, across the mighty hudson river from lower manhattan. we have a number of ceremonies taking place both there and elsewhere throughout the city today. that one will ab tended by new jersey governor chris christie and he will commemorate the 746 new jerseyans whose lives were lost on that fateful day ten years ago tomorrow. here in new york, the preparations are going forward for tomorrow's ceremony. you can see all of that tomorrow right here on msnbc as america remembers september 11th. this morning, we are getting new clues on that unconfirmed 9/11 terror threat which has led to the massive security increase in new york city and washington. i'm joined in studio by
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representative gerald nadler of new york. >> good morning. >> what have you been told about this threat, the potential car bomb plot, truck bomb plot by al qaeda? >> some of us got a secret briefing yesterday. i think it's fair to say we weren't told anything that hasn't been in the newspapers by now. there's intelligence from someone who has been reliable in the past that some plotters want to explode a car bomb, and that one of them at least may be in this country. >> what's the first thing that goes through your mind when you hear that? >> well, that this is nothing new. that we have to be on a heightened state after letter all the time. certainly the israelis have learned to live with this on an ongoing basis, thank god not as much as they do but we still have to. we've seen since 9/11 a number of different plots against the united states, all foiled. luckry, not all of them.
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almost all of them foiled. not huge carnage. there's no guarantee our luck will hold forever. we have to be as vigilant as possible. >> i've been telling the viewers, driving to work today in the dark, police were there with their lights flashing, i didn't mind that one bit. put me behind a little bit but i was glad to see that. >> i think that will probably be done for a few days at least until the -- this intelligence that the threat is abated, i don't think it will be on a permanent basis for certain. >> but new yorkers, do you think they mind that? >> well, i don't think so. i would hope not. you shouldn't mind -- it doesn't make sense to mind things done for your safety. things could be far more intrusive and far worse. but if this has to be done, it has to be done. >> i want to talk with you about
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your constituents and people from your district. where the world trade center stood is in your district. as you reflect on that and also your constituents, what are they telling you? >> they're telling me a number of things. it's a bitter sweet reminder, of course, of what happened. of course a number of things. number one, downtown manhattan was hit badly, obviously. people were killed, who didn't just live there but people who lived there were killed. there were prophecies that it would be depopulated, that people wouldn't want to live there again. it's coming back very strongly. the largest population growth in the city of new york is in lower manhattan. the population has doubled and it's become much more of a 24/7. >> aren't there more businesses than there were prior. >> more businesses, some of the existing businesses didn't survive. some in congress worked very hard to get a lot of help for businesses there. we succeeded for some extent.
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we got grants, not just loans, which was unprecedented at that time. a lost businesses have come throe. a lot of new businesses are locating there. it's become less just the financial center. now it's a publishing and a lot of dotcoms, a lot of other businesses, which is very good. a lot of people living there. a lot of new school kid, a lot of new schools. downtown has come back very strongly. the second is obviously, people are talking about. the second is that we've become somewhat immuned to living in a permanent state of some threat. in the back of your mind you know there's a threat. i don't think we should have gone into iraq or whatever but we did. thirdly, we've -- certainly a
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lot of people focused on and i focused on for a long time is that a lot of people who were first responders, cops, firemen, emt medics, et cetera, who worked there for months were first of all trying to rescue people for the first three days. after they worked there for months cleaning it up and people who lived there, went to work there, whether working in an office or wall street got sick because of the toxic -- toxins in the air. some of them got sick because they were caught in the plume on that day or the next few days. there's no one to blame because of terrorists. some got sick because they were lied to, the city and federal governments. it took us until december of last year to pass legislation that was sponsored by myself and carolyn maloney to finally give a permanent medical monitoring and medical care to the victims, the first responders and
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survivors. and the people are relieved by that. i for one am amazed that it took so long. >> i will tell you, i spoke with a first responder earlier today who suffered from thyroid cancer and cited exactly what you have proposed, you and representative maloney. >> we finally passed the legislation. we had a compromise at the end and one of the compromises was we didn't put kanser in the bill right away. we put a process in that i think will result it being in fairly soon. >> wonderful. >> the other thing is, the country was unified. at least briefly after 9/11. and i hope that this ten-year remembrance will at least bring back some of that. because our politics and our public discourse right now is much too much so. >> thank you very much. representative gerald nadler. thank you for your time.
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>> you're quite welcome. and this memorial in new rochelle, new york. 2,976 flags surround city hall. each flag placed in honor of the people who lost their lives in the attacks ten years ago. a candle light vigil will be held there tomorrow night. [ female announcer ] water was meant to be perfect.
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now to politics and the blogosphere buzzing about one exchange between rick perry and ron paul this week. no one know what was said. it's a photo taking during a commercial break. it captures what is pears to not be a congenial moment. the two politicians never met before that night. congressman paul claims he doesn't remember what was said. >> it's a picture of myself with i think the governor of -- [ laughter ] the truth is, i never met him before. and some of the people in the
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media, i don't believe you. how could that be true? he's your governor. the picture, of course, if you haven't seen it, is very -- he's looking straight at me and he has his hand on my arm like he's not going to let me move and he's doing this to me. everybody, my kids included, said what was he saying to you? >> joining me now, peter phen and political analyst pat buchanan. you are chuckling there. pat, you've been to these debates before. are there intimidation tactics like in sports? do candidates try to get inside somebody's head or get in their face and intimidate them when the cameras are off. >> you want to make sure you nail the one guy. he's in your way. and of course, ron paul had been sort of baiting the governor there. the governor is a tough guy. that is a natural exchange.
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i think there's no harm done. i tell you this, though, rick perry's got a real problem down the road here, alex, for this reason. he's got to do very well in iowa and the two people that he's got to beat out of there are michele bachmann and ron paul who, together, got more than 60% of the iowa straw poll. so those two folks are in his way, all the way in this run to the nomination and you're going to see sparks fly because rick perry is one guy who does not conceal his emotions. >> well, that's for sure. peter, as you know rick perry, he went into the debate with these skyrocketing poll numbers, the new guy here. who left the stage that night as the winner? was it rick perry? does he remain the front-runner? >> i tell you, i think at the end of the day, both romney and perry came out of that about the same position they were when they went in. i do think that, you no he, perry is pretty thin skinned here. i mean, my guess is that what
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he's concerned about, alex, is an ad that was put up by ron paul. which tied him to al gore, because, of course, he supported al gore in 1988. but i wouldn't have -- i wouldn't have spent much time with ron paul to be honest with you. his real concern has got to be mitt romney. but the other thing that he's got to do is, look, it's so early in the process, he has got to prove to people that he can win a general election, that he's not so far out and crazy and radical as his book seems to indicate. >> listen, i'm supposed to go but i want you each to tell me really quickly who drops out first and when? pat first. >> i would guess the first dropouts would be huntsman and santorum but i think -- i think santorum will wait until the iowa caucuses and huntsman is betting everything on new hampshire. >> peter?
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>> and gingrich will be out as soon as he gets his matching funds to pay off his debt. >> okay. hey, you guys, good to see you. >> get those matching funds, peter. >> you work on that. we'll talk about this, nass is officially on its way back to the moon. the successful launch for delta ii. apparently the commute to the moon isn't as short as it used to be. the low-power rocket will take four years to reach the moon. that's compared to the three-day trip made by at poll low astronauts. nasa officials hope the nearly $500 million mission will help answer lingering questions about the moon. ♪ [ male announcer ] what is the future of fuel? the debate is over.
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now that's beautiful. [ thunder rumbles ] what is the sign of a good decision? in the world of personal finance, it's massmutual. find strength and stability in a company that's owned by its policyholders. ask your advisor, or visit massmutual.com. a live look right now at ground zero here in new york city in the final stages of preparation for tomorrow's memorial ceremony. security is tight on an unconfirmed report that a group
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of three al qaeda members may be planning a car bomb attack. all aspects of the ceremony are set to go forward as planned. in shanksville, pennsylvania, in about one hour from now, presidents george w. bush and bill clinton will take part in a ceremony to officially dedicate the national memorial to the victims of united flight 93. vice president joe biden will unveil the wall of names during the each of the 40 people who died when flight 93 crashed in that pennsylvania field. a ten years after 9/11, the security measures at airports have undergone dramatic changes from taking your shoes off to full-body scans. airport security is the top priority for the 60,000 men and women who make up the tsa. nbc's tom costello has more. >> reporter: for nearly 2 million passengers every day, the tsa and its 755 checkpoints are the most visible reminder of 9/11. and the threat says the tsa chief, hasn't changed much. >> those who are able to design
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and construct and conceal bombs that simply don't look like bombs -- >> reporter: since 9/11 there have been serious attempts to bring down planes. the 2001 shoe bomb attempt, the 2006, the christmas day underwear bomber in 2009 and last year's cargo bomb plot. from undercover air marshals to armed pilots, 40,000 tsa screeners, bans on liquids and gels, shoes off, laptops out, a watch list, controversies over full-body imageers and those personal patdowns, flying is nothing like it was ten years ago. >> what brings you to the airport today? >> reporter: in miami, mobile police checkpoints and hardened barriers protection the airfield while a heavily armed tactical police and canine unisit always on patrol inside. at a 24/7 airport where tens of thousands of people work in and
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around the airport, vigilance is constant and evolving. >> reporter: anyone who wears an airport i.d. is trained to spot suspicious behavior. >> we have thousands of eyes and ears through our work force here at the airport who can report suspicious nature to us. >> reporter: at what cost? >> it's appropriate to ask how much we're spending and at what cost. but the reality here is al qaeda and its affiliates have named aviation as a prime terrorist target. >> reporter: coming soon, a trusted traveler program for frequent flyers as the tsa struggles to screen and safeguard 625 million passengers each year. tom costello, nbc news, miami. a special tenth anniversary edition of the book "one nation: america remembers september 11th, 2001" is available right now. they tell the stories of the brave men and women who sacrificed their lives to help
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those in need. one of the people profiled in the book is a par med whoik dashed to the scene. she and her partner miraculously survived the collapse of both towers. she joins me here in the studio. good morning. >> good morning. >> tell us where you were. i know you had responded to the attack on the world trade center but tell us what happened once you got on scene. >> when we got on the scene, basically i witnessed the second plane hit the towers and we heard the first plane hit the tower. that's when i went to the scene. i got there in about 30 seconds because we were in new york downtown hospital, the hospital i'm located, is only three blocks away. the first initially wasn't too bad. people were just walking and a little bit scared but i didn't get do see only the fumes and for me personally, i was a little bit confused. i never seen in all the years i worked with the paramedic, a
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plane hit anything, tower or a plane crash. >> you saw that second plane go in. >> i was already on the scene. and i heard the rumbling sound but i didn't know where it was coming from and then i saw a shadow. we were located to the east more and i saw a shadow going across the street and then i -- the whistling sound was so bad. i heard it almost over my head. >> you stayed on the scene. here these two buildings were aflame and you were trying to treat people who were shocked, dazed, confused, anyone else who had been injured as well. >> the job of a paramedic is to assist and help. we weren't thinking about anything else. >> you never dreamed the buildings would come down. >> i had no idea. i was triaging, sending the most critical patients by ambulance and guiding the other people to walk away from the scene. >> what we have to say about
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this is that you were trapped when the north tower collapsed, you had gone into the subway, correct? to escape anything when you saw who was happening. >> basically i was guiding the people that were able to walk to use the subway station to -- for safety, because a lot of things were falling. and the north tower collapsed, i had to run inside and the subway and i was trapped there for hours. >> until that evening when your supervisor was able to come and find you. you had to take a year off after that. we're glad you're back on the job. people can hear about your story in this book. glad you're here. >> thank you. beale bring you the dedication ceremony of flight 93 in shanksville, pennsylvania. tomorrow morning we'll bring you live coverage of the ceremonies at ground zero, that begins for you at 8:00 eastern here on msnbc. [ man ] ♪ gone, like my last paycheck
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at 42 past the hour. there you're seeing friends, family and loved ones all gathering to pay tribute to those 40 heroes in shanksville, pennsylvania. former presidents george w. bush and bill clinton will both be there for the official dedication of at least the first of three parts of the memorial that will be there today. and right now, grammy award winning singer and song writer sara mclaughlin joins me. she'll perform at the ceremony today. we're so glad to have you speak with us. how did you become involved in the ceremony? >> they phoned me up and asked me if i was interested in participating. it was an easy answer, yes, instantly. it was a wonderful opportunity for me to honor the families and the victims and the heroes of
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the flight and to be part of this. >> you know it is in large part because of your two iconic songs, both of which you'll be performing, "angel" and "i will remember you." i don't know how you plan to get through performing songs like this. i know you're a professional but for those of us who anticipate it, that's a tough one. >> it is. when i was doing sound check i was fine and i looked up and saw some of the families sitting in the front row and they were crying and i just started crying. unfortunately what i need to do is focus on something really -- in order to get through it. it's absolutely heartbreaking to be here and just to remember what went on. yes, it's going to be difficult but i think i'm going to -- i'm a professional, hopefully i'll be able to get through it and do my job. i'm here to do a job. >> you'll do your job and it will be beautiful however it's performed. tell me where you were on 9/11 and what you remember of that day. >> i was with two of my dear
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friends from new york city, on the west coast of british columbia. i got a call around 8:30 in the morning from a friend who said a plane struck one of the towers. we got up and turned on the tv and were obviously stuck to the tv all day. my friends couldn't get home for a week and, yeah, you know, i remember it clear as day. >> i'll bet you do. t. was a beautiful sunny day. >> you know, it was. we call it 9/11 weather here in new york. it was a spectacular day, picture perfect, not a cloud in the sky. until that horrible cloud that came from the fires. but sarah, do you have plans to speak with anyone that's gathered there? i should think that afterward, after the performance there will be a lot of people who will want to reach out and touch you. >> yes, i'd be happy to. i'm going to be here and, again, that's part of my job. i think it's one of the most important validations for me as an artist to be able to create something and give it out and have it affect other people like this.
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it's the profound gift of music. >> something you have done to imand time again. both of these songs. we all know them and love them so much. good luck, sarah, getting through it. >> thank you. >> thank you. in just a moment, a panel discussion on how america has handled 9/11. we will bring you the ceremony from shanksville, pennsylvania. chris matthews will be anchoring all of those events. that begins at the top of the hour. or hires another employee, it's not just good for business -- it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities, so we're helping them with advice from local business experts and extending $18 billion in credit last year.
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in many respects america is an unfamiliar water after a decade after the attacks, struggling to hold its place in the economy. speaking on "morning joe"
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friday, david remnick spoke about the impact of 9/11. >> osama bin laden destabilized this country in large measure for a long time, in many ways, socially, politically, distorted our politics and in some ways we fell for the bait and in some ways, some things we had to do. >> evan coleman is an nbc terrorism analyst. and jack jacobs is an msnbc military analyst. and joanne reed is an msnbc contributor and pat buchanan is a political analyst. i welcome all of you to this discussion. i'll do ladies first here, beginning with you. did september 11 set america off course? and do you think we're still working to get her back? >> in american history, we've had a couple of times where we had a huge destabilizing event fundamentally change the country. after world war i, you had the roundup of immigrants.
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we had the red scare in the '50s. and in the same way, 9/11 set us on an alternate course. people now forget we were having our mail opened. americans were being wiretapped. we were doing things that seemed un-american but that have happened before. but in those previous case, we hadn't been attacked on our soil. but it was kind of disturbing when you look back at some of the things we did. >> pat, i want to go to you there in d.c. there was a remarkable sense of unity among all americans, this common cause. but ten years later, not so much in washington. anger among our lawmakers. is 9/11 part of the divide in politics today? >> you know, 9/11 united this country and the american people as i haven't seen our country and people united since i was a little boy during world war ii.
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when everybody was behind the cause. and the president initially had america solidly behind him going into afghanistan. he was at 90%. and what happened is he went up there in 2002 with the state of the union, after we defeated the taliban and driven them from power and driven al qaeda out, and he said there's an axis of evil, and basically we're going to confront them and go to war against iraq. i think at that moment the president basically destroyed his international and his national coalition. we divided inside the republican party and divided in america and ever since we've been plunged in the middle east on this crusade for democracy, which i think is utopian, and for ten years. this is one of the principle causes why that tremendous unity we had i think was lost and pretty much destroyed. we don't have it anymore today.
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my view is that is where the turning point occurred when the president started talking about an axis of evil rather than the people that attacked us. >> colonel jacobs, this is the author of "the rooming tower" speaking yesterday. let's take a listen the that. i'm sorry, we don't have that sound bite. he talked about how he didn't expect to defeat us militarily. i -- and he talks about osama bin laden. when you look at america's status in the world right now, our military commitments there, did osama bin laden succeed? >> if that was his objective, he accomplished it. we spent trillions of dollars actually trying to protect our influence into an area which we had never been before. certainly not in any numbers and which had a long history of
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tradition of peeping outsiders at bay. so we spent tons of money, which is what he wanted us to do. number two, we lost influence in the mediterranean. we were rejected when we tried to get russia on our side. turkey wouldn't even let us put our fourth division in to go into iraq. and now we are cowering away and limping away there the area. so he accomplished that, too. and there was osama bin laden and there's an ancillary benefit to the axis of evil from our getting involved there in iraq, the way we did. and that is that israel is now more isolated than ever. military and politically. and is in a very difficult straits in many respects. osama bin laden accomplished his mission. >> evan, with respect to that debate out there, and it's
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always fought, civil rights and personal security. the practices the government engages in, do they cross the line are are they necessary? >> part of the problem is, they are necessary, but there are cases in which you have to wonder whether or not we've gone too far. warrantless wiretapping is one of those issues where it's very difficult to justify that. that's what the fisa court was designed for, to review confidential classified wiretaps and see whether or not the government is justified in going that. i don't think you can suspend that kind of a system. it was designed for that. but then again, you look back and you think there are a lot of things that i think osama bin laden was hoping we would do in terms of ramping up our security and cutting.
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we did not somehow mass roundup muslims in this country and we didn't do these crazy things that he was hoping we would do, that we would go far overboard. bin laden succeeded in pushing us to accelerate our security and do things that do infringe somewhat on our liberty, but i think he was disappointed in the sense that he was hoping for a lot more. >> what are the two of you, as i look at the two of you here with me, joanne and jack, what do you guys hope comes from the ceremony tomorrow? what kind of a sense do you hope is evoked from that, joanne? >> well, i do think there was that brief home when we had a sense of national unity that we have lost and it's gone to the other extreme, to the point where our politics is so toxic and ugly that it's hard to imagine having that unified moment ago. part of what was lost is because of the iraq war and it was such a distorting impact on our politics. >> and jack?
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>> most people don't recognize that we lost more people, more americans died in new york on 9/11 than were killed at pearl harbor in the second world war. they can't forget that. >> no, i don't think we will. that is a wrap of our live coverage of america marking the tenth anniversary of 9/11. chris matthews is taking over at the top of the hour from shanksville, pennsylvania.
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